The Dreamers : What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

In the scene in which she pretends to be the Venus de Milo, she hears Theo and another girl laughing and having a good time.
She then has a fit and seems as though she has no idea what is going on and who Matthew is.

Earlier in the film, Isabella refuses to let Matthew enter her room.
I theorize that Isabella has some sort of psychologically damaging connection with her room.
Perhaps it makes her forget things.

Or maybe she is just so angry that she forgets who Matthew is, but that seems unlikely because, even in times of great distress, one is not likely to forget who one's lover is.

Thoughts, anyone?

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabelle?

Isabelle's room is immaculately preserved in a little girl fashion, and it serves as a private retreat. It's where she is most herself: no acting, no games, no fighting, no need to be hyper-attuned to Theo's every mood shift. For her to let Matthew in makes her just a little emotionally fragile, almost as an echo of letting Matthew into her body that first time. As Matthew's voice-over says, "I discovered a side of Isabelle I'd never seen before... a secret side she hadn't wanted me to see."

While in this newly vulnerable state, she hears "La Mer." Concerned that Theo is abandoning her out of spite over her date, she freaks out and needs to be left alone. "Please. Leave me alone. Leave me alone. Please. Please. Please!" She could deal either with Theo's actions next door or with Matthew's physical presence in her sanctuary, but not both at the same time. Matthew is all over her, though, holding her and telling her what not to do. Don't listen, don't cry, don't beat against the wall because you'll hurt yourself. Basically telling her, "Don't focus on Theo, focus on me instead." Yes, he's trying to comfort her, but he is not who she needs.

For Isabelle, Matthew doesn't belong in her room nor does he belong in her life if it means she loses Theo. There is no longer a context for Matthew's presence, and he's actually making things worse. I don't think it's that she literally doesn't recognize him, I think it's angry accusation, like "Who are you to tell me anything?" (This belief is based in part on how she says it on the French audio track.) Matthew's just a 'spy in the house of love', after all.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabelle?

Bravo! That's about as good an explanation as anybody could give.

The only other thing of note worth mentioning (to the OP) is the fact that she has dressed deliberately as the Venus DeMilo to 'surrender' to Matthew. To be symbolically vulnerable "I have no arms".

Theo's actions were also probably a deliberate attempt to scupper her and Matthew's burgeoning relationship.





"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabelle?

Wonderful point about the Venus de Milo's lack of defensive capability. :-) I didn't register that at all, but you're right, that does enhance her symbolic vulnerability rather obviously...

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabelle?

Great explanations, everyone! This was an AMAZING film. Very talented actors and director.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabelle?

Agree about the symbolism of Venus de Milo. Bertolucci doesn't do anything without a purpose.

Remember their first meeting? Isabelle was "chained" to the fence and needed Matthew to help her remove a cigarette from her lips. Only it turns out, she wasn't really chained, her arms were completely free. Here she's using her vulnerability again, but suddenly she's not in control of the costume, as she was in the first scene. There's a crack in her armor: both her sanctuaries (her room AND her brother's love) have been violated at the same time.

"The dreamer" is awake and must face a certain reality - even if only for a short time - and can't cope with it. I'm not sure if her screams to Matthew ("who are you!") are mere anger. I really think she's partially disoriented - again, if only momentarily.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabelle?

Thanks for the insight. It increases my appreciation of the film.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabelle?

thank you, this is the best explanation of Isabelle.

makes me understand her better as a person.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

She was French.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

Brilliant

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

it's Isabelle and nothing was wrong with her, except that she and her brother seamed to have an incestoues relationship with each other.

--
Jill: Libby, these foreign exchange students are sitting at our table
Libby: Well deport them

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

Ah... I think it was just anxiety. She is so immensely attached to her brother and the idea of someone being more important to him than her, of some other girl fulfilling his wants whatever they be, it upset her so greatly. She felt that she was losing him. I think just the combination of Matthew trying to draw her away from Theo and then Theo's retaliation of finding another girl...

It just was too much and she felt she was changing. Change is scary. I think this because the film is about youth... in many ways.

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Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

Waaaay wrong.

"Sometimes the right thing to do is the wrong thing" -- Jason Stackhouse

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

Isabelle was not in incestuous relationship with Theo. They did not have sex. Mathew mentioned it to Isabella after their first time, saying that Theo never penetrated her, and she did not deny it and took it as a given.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

Just because Theo didn't penetrate her doesn't mean they didn't have an incestuos relationship. Their connection went beyond sister-brother affection, clearly.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

That depends a bit on one's definition of incest, but Theo did not exhibit any lust for Isabella, not in his looks, nor in his actions. Sleeping and bathing together although peculiar for grown up siblings does not constitute incest as such, but rather certain freedom of outlook on sexuality, obscenity and taboo. I think the lack of sexual intent is the most critical test in drawing the boarder line. If Theo lusted for Isabella he wouldn't have let the American guy have sex with her, he would have been too jealous. Instead he tended to her overdue need to get detached from her bother and experience the adulthood including sex with a man.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

are you really Bill Clinton?

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

No, I am Clit Bolton

And what's with judging incest? (For the record, it wan't incest). But even if it was, what's wrong with that? It's two consenting adults!

Doesn't this condemnation kill the empathy for the drama the Theo and Isabella are going through and spoil the movie for the judgmental viewer? The adult world is crashing into their imaginary childhood fairy tale, they do feel jealous for each other, it pains to be letting go, they cling to the relationship they had by diving into more games (pretending to be in the movies, or playing revolutionaries, toying with sex games) but they refuse to become lovers, they don't feel the desire for each other and are perfectly aware that it would ruin everything - that is worthy of admiration and is kind of cute. Makes a compassionate person feel sorry and worried about them!

I think it's Theo and Isabella's parents who exemplify the movie creator's standard for non-judgmental attitude and acceptance. They are a bit shocked to see what the kids had been up to but leave money and leave without uttering a word of reproach, much less making a scene. It's a kind of trust in their children making all the right choices in the end that only wise and confident parents have.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

the sister was not a consenting adult she was a coo coo that the pervert brother was taking advantage of

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

Yeah, you definetly have a point with Theo. Isabella though, she definitly felt a really close connection to her brother that, in my opinion, had a previous childhood experience underlying. A connection that somehow also involved trauma. And I say this mostly because of her room scen.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

I really enjoyed Theora23's reply and I agree but the one thing I was thinking during that scene, is that she got so upset because Theo was playing "her" song while loving another woman. She knew he had company right after they arrived back home and it didn't bother her that much initially.

Re: What was psychologically wrong with Isabella?

they were so effed up.

"Everyone has an opinion....and then you die."

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