Friends : Susan
Re: Susan
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Robert_A_Fett wrote:
But not with any sophistication or willingness to look at alternatives.
Topic's been done to death is all.
Re: Susan
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LovesConfusingJoy wrote:
I am not making any moral judgments on any of this, but I do believe that, for some people, seeing this from Susan's point of view will make them more sympathetic toward her.
I am trying to explain Susan's behavior in a way other than "Susan is a bitch."
You're obsessed with excusing the women's *beep* behavior.
I am not making any moral judgments on any of this, but I do believe that, for some people, seeing this from Susan's point of view will make them more sympathetic toward her.
Re: Susan
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I think she'd known susan for some time, but had only just come to terms with being a lesbian. She left Ross for susan befor she realised she was pregnant.
Re: Susan
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louiseculmer wrote:
It is only barely possible, and certainly not plausible, that she became pregnant while she was still living with Ross. We know that she had sex with Ross once after leaving him.
You can find the timeline here:
imdb.com/board/10108778/board/view/264106042?d=264106878#264106878
Carol became pregnant after she had left Ross for Susan.
She left Ross for susan befor she realised she was pregnant.
It is only barely possible, and certainly not plausible, that she became pregnant while she was still living with Ross. We know that she had sex with Ross once after leaving him.
Yes.
I think she'd known susan for some time,
We have no information on when Carol realized that she might well be a lesbian. I believe she probably moved out shortly after she came to terms with it, but that is not an easy matter, and there may have been months between realizing and accepting.
but had only just come to terms with being a lesbian.
You can find the timeline here:
imdb.com/board/10108778/board/view/264106042?d=264106878#264106878
Re: Susan
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LovesConfusingJoy wrote:
Here is what I know of the timeline:
imdb.com/board/10108778/board/view/264106042?d=264106878#264106878
Remember that when Carol left Ross, it was the last night that what we know as a coffee house was a bar.
Also remember that Ross said he had sex with Carol once "after she became a lesbian," and I think that has to mean after she told him and left him.
From all the indications, Carol cannot have gotten pregnant very long before the pilot episode. It is certainly possible that Carol got pregnant three weeks before the pilot, and that Carol left Ross two weeks before the pilot, and that the coffeehouse had only opened in the pilot, but I am not convinced.
It is not clear to me what you are agreeing with, but if you are agreeing that Carol got pregnant before leaving Ross and only realized after she left Ross, then I wonder how you fit this into the timeline in any plausible way.
I agree with this.
Here is what I know of the timeline:
imdb.com/board/10108778/board/view/264106042?d=264106878#264106878
Remember that when Carol left Ross, it was the last night that what we know as a coffee house was a bar.
Also remember that Ross said he had sex with Carol once "after she became a lesbian," and I think that has to mean after she told him and left him.
From all the indications, Carol cannot have gotten pregnant very long before the pilot episode. It is certainly possible that Carol got pregnant three weeks before the pilot, and that Carol left Ross two weeks before the pilot, and that the coffeehouse had only opened in the pilot, but I am not convinced.
Re: Susan
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cajun-queen88 wrote:
Carol almost undoubtedly got pregnant after she had moved in with Susan. I believe it was entirely deliberate.
I have written a lot about this. Here:
imdb.com/board/10108778/board/view/264106042?d=264106528#264106528
And the timeline in the following post:
imdb.com/board/10108778/board/view/264106042?d=264106878#264106878
And in the ensuing discussion. And lots of other places.
I would love to discuss this with you. If you look at some of the responses that I've gotten, you will understand why.
I believe that if Carol's pregnancy was intentional, and with Susan's grudging acceptance but over her objection, it explains a lot of things better than anything else that we know.
I do not know anything that contradicts that hypothesis.
People assume that it was accidental, but Carol and Susan seem strikingly enthusiastic and unambivalent about raising a child if it was a surprise.
It is only barely possible to make the timeline work if Carol got pregnant while she was still living with Ross. I say possible, not plausible.
Does this seem weird to anyone else?
Carol almost undoubtedly got pregnant after she had moved in with Susan. I believe it was entirely deliberate.
I have written a lot about this. Here:
imdb.com/board/10108778/board/view/264106042?d=264106528#264106528
And the timeline in the following post:
imdb.com/board/10108778/board/view/264106042?d=264106878#264106878
And in the ensuing discussion. And lots of other places.
I would love to discuss this with you. If you look at some of the responses that I've gotten, you will understand why.
I believe that if Carol's pregnancy was intentional, and with Susan's grudging acceptance but over her objection, it explains a lot of things better than anything else that we know.
I do not know anything that contradicts that hypothesis.
People assume that it was accidental, but Carol and Susan seem strikingly enthusiastic and unambivalent about raising a child if it was a surprise.
Re: Susan
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That's a really interesting point!
I was just thinking about the strain about how Carlo spelt with Ross after she had left him for her. Carlo did cheat on Susan that one time.
But if you're right about a planned pregnancy then things get interesting! Where it would a interesting plot but i think it's lately. For following reasons:
-why Ross? They definitely seemed they were more than willing to raise a baby just the two of them. I wouldn't want to raise a baby with my partner's ex. They would know adding Ross in the mix would be messy. I think they've just hit the sermon bank.
-the timing. They just got together. Carol for the first time in her life was being who she really was. I feel they've wanted more time just being a couple. But this is very easliy argued and my weakest point.
-yes they were very excited to be parents but that doesn't mean it was planned. We don't know when they found out. It could be weeks before they told Ross. They in that time could've argued about Carol sleeping with Ross, Susan being cheated on (If she didn't know before), Susan could've debated what she wanted to do, and then came together and were happy about this pregnancy and that they would be parents. All before they told Ross. Having time to get excited about it.
I was just thinking about the strain about how Carlo spelt with Ross after she had left him for her. Carlo did cheat on Susan that one time.
But if you're right about a planned pregnancy then things get interesting! Where it would a interesting plot but i think it's lately. For following reasons:
-why Ross? They definitely seemed they were more than willing to raise a baby just the two of them. I wouldn't want to raise a baby with my partner's ex. They would know adding Ross in the mix would be messy. I think they've just hit the sermon bank.
-the timing. They just got together. Carol for the first time in her life was being who she really was. I feel they've wanted more time just being a couple. But this is very easliy argued and my weakest point.
-yes they were very excited to be parents but that doesn't mean it was planned. We don't know when they found out. It could be weeks before they told Ross. They in that time could've argued about Carol sleeping with Ross, Susan being cheated on (If she didn't know before), Susan could've debated what she wanted to do, and then came together and were happy about this pregnancy and that they would be parents. All before they told Ross. Having time to get excited about it.
Re: Susan
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sierra17 wrote:
I understand why Carol would want to have the baby by the man that she loved, married, and lived with for seven years. For one thing, she knows what she's getting. It may almost be Ross's consolation prize for losing Carol, i.e. that he has a child by her. And Carol gets to keep part of Ross.
I like the idea that Carol doesn't want to just toss Ross out.
If Bobo is the father, Carol and Susan are equal partners. But with Ross as the father, Susan is the only one who does not have a biological link to the child, and she is afraid that she's being pushed into third place.
Ross is happy that Carol has met a friend, but at some later time, Carol is spending an awful lot of time with Susan and Ross sounds annoyed.
Ross learns that Carol is a lesbian on the last night that what we know as a coffee house was a bar. No way to say how long that was before the pilot, but I certainly think it's likely that it was more than a couple of weeks.
I don't believe we have any information on when they got together sexually, but they have known each other for nine months to a year.
I don't see how Carol could've gotten pregnant more than a couple of weeks before the pilot. Barely possible, but I don't find it plausible.
My summary of timeline is here:
imdb.com/board/10108778/board/view/264106042?d=264106878#264106878
The core of my argument is that it explains why Susan is so angry, but not angry at Carol. I believe that they were at a complete impasse over the father of the baby, and it was agreed that Carol would get one shot at getting pregnant by Ross. Susan can't be angry at Carol because she did agree to it, but she's definitely angry over the results. It was not at all what she wanted.
If Carol had gotten pregnant by cheating on Susan, I believe a lot of that anger would've been directed at Carol.
Also, Carol does not try to restrain Susan's behavior toward Ross because she knows exactly what Susan is angry about and that Susan has a point. Susan is not really angry at Ross; she just doesn't want him there. She is just angry as hell at the situation. She did not sign on to have Carol's ex-husband become a permanent part of her and Carol's family unit.
P. S. Ross says that he had sex with Carol once after she became a lesbian. A poster whose opinions I respect finds that ambiguous, but I think it has to mean that Ross had sex with Carol once after she told him that she's a lesbian and moved out.
Yes, and that is what Susan wants. Carol clearly would prefer to include Ross. She takes him to a very early sonogram to hook him and she succeeds.
-why Ross? They definitely seemed they were more than willing to raise a baby just the two of them.
That is exactly Susan's attitude and what she did not want.
I wouldn't want to raise a baby with my partner's ex
If you broke up with your about boyfriend, particularly if it was bitter, sure. But Carol left Ross for reasons that came out of her own psychology and had nothing to do with Ross. I think she still cares about Ross and wants to keep Ross in her life to some degree. I think she feels that her child knowing the father is a good thing.
they would know adding Ross in the mix would be messy.
I understand why Carol would want to have the baby by the man that she loved, married, and lived with for seven years. For one thing, she knows what she's getting. It may almost be Ross's consolation prize for losing Carol, i.e. that he has a child by her. And Carol gets to keep part of Ross.
I like the idea that Carol doesn't want to just toss Ross out.
That was certainly what Susan wanted and that is why she describes Ross as Bobo the anonymous sperm donor. That is what she wishes he were.
I think they've just hit the sermon bank.
If Bobo is the father, Carol and Susan are equal partners. But with Ross as the father, Susan is the only one who does not have a biological link to the child, and she is afraid that she's being pushed into third place.
Carol met Susan one year before the pilot according to what Rachel said about when she is going to be married. Alternatively Carol met Susan three years before Season Three, Episode Six. Something like Season Zero, Episode Six.
-the timing. They just got together. Carol for the first time in her life was being who she really was.
Ross is happy that Carol has met a friend, but at some later time, Carol is spending an awful lot of time with Susan and Ross sounds annoyed.
Ross learns that Carol is a lesbian on the last night that what we know as a coffee house was a bar. No way to say how long that was before the pilot, but I certainly think it's likely that it was more than a couple of weeks.
I don't believe we have any information on when they got together sexually, but they have known each other for nine months to a year.
If Carol is determined that Ross be the father and I think that she is she has to move quickly before Ross acquires another girlfriend. In the pilot, we learned that Carol had just moved the last of her stuff out that day. I speculate that she did that because she no longer needed an excuse to be at Ross's because she knew at that point that she was pregnant.
I feel they've wanted more time just being a couple.
Not really. The sonogram was a month after the pilot, and it was too early to determine the baby's sex. They don't know the baby's sex until Episode 12 and that is said to be at 19 weeks. Carol gives birth in the last episode of season one. If Rachel's pregnancy is any indication, the gestation period in Friends is one season.
We don't know when they found out. It could be weeks before they told Ross.
I don't see how Carol could've gotten pregnant more than a couple of weeks before the pilot. Barely possible, but I don't find it plausible.
My summary of timeline is here:
imdb.com/board/10108778/board/view/264106042?d=264106878#264106878
The core of my argument is that it explains why Susan is so angry, but not angry at Carol. I believe that they were at a complete impasse over the father of the baby, and it was agreed that Carol would get one shot at getting pregnant by Ross. Susan can't be angry at Carol because she did agree to it, but she's definitely angry over the results. It was not at all what she wanted.
If Carol had gotten pregnant by cheating on Susan, I believe a lot of that anger would've been directed at Carol.
Also, Carol does not try to restrain Susan's behavior toward Ross because she knows exactly what Susan is angry about and that Susan has a point. Susan is not really angry at Ross; she just doesn't want him there. She is just angry as hell at the situation. She did not sign on to have Carol's ex-husband become a permanent part of her and Carol's family unit.
P. S. Ross says that he had sex with Carol once after she became a lesbian. A poster whose opinions I respect finds that ambiguous, but I think it has to mean that Ross had sex with Carol once after she told him that she's a lesbian and moved out.
Re: Susan
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sierra17 wrote:
P. S. My wife's interpretation is this.
That's the question. Did Carol actually cheat on Susan or was it with Susan's consent?
I have tried, but I really can't make sense out of that. Help.
I was just thinking about the strain about how Carlo spelt with Ross after she had left him for her. Carlo did cheat on Susan that one time.
P. S. My wife's interpretation is this.
I was just thinking about the strain about how Carol slept with Ross after she had left him for her. Carol did cheat on Susan that one time.
That's the question. Did Carol actually cheat on Susan or was it with Susan's consent?
Re: Susan
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Sorry about that last one. I'm bad at checking my spelling on things and wording at times.
You make compelling argument here. For Carol I understand it wanting to be Ross. She knew him and would certainly like having the baby's father around. And it would make sense that Susan put all the blame/argue on Ross.
But does that mean it was planned? No.
1) we don't know what happened with Carol and Susan in their early day lives. Would she was mad at her and everything. Maybe they even went to therapy and Susan did eventually forever Carol. But was still starkey to Ross because he was the same to her.
2) Susan could've just taken her angry out on Ross. I mean I have had people who should've been equally mad at me for something but put on their angry on someone else because it was more convenient. They didn't have to deal with that person but they had to deal with me.
You make compelling argument here. For Carol I understand it wanting to be Ross. She knew him and would certainly like having the baby's father around. And it would make sense that Susan put all the blame/argue on Ross.
But does that mean it was planned? No.
1) we don't know what happened with Carol and Susan in their early day lives. Would she was mad at her and everything. Maybe they even went to therapy and Susan did eventually forever Carol. But was still starkey to Ross because he was the same to her.
2) Susan could've just taken her angry out on Ross. I mean I have had people who should've been equally mad at me for something but put on their angry on someone else because it was more convenient. They didn't have to deal with that person but they had to deal with me.
Re: Susan
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sierra17 wrote:
Do you agree that Carol almost undoubtedly got pregnant after she had left Ross and very shortly before the pilot?
If you don't agree, how long before the pilot do you think Carol got pregnant? How long before the pilot do you think that Carol left Ross? Remember that the coffeehouse was still a bar when that happened.
If you do agree, then Carol clearly cheated on Susan unless it was intentional and with Susan's consent. Some people are happy to believe Carol cheated, but I don't. She's at the beginning of a very important relation for her, and you don't start something like that off by cheating especially when you're not sexually attracted to men.
If Carol got pregnant by cheating on Susan, Susan would have a lot of leverage to say to Carol, "DON'T TELL ROSS THAT HE IS THE FATHER, at least not now."
That would get Susan most of what she wants, and I don't see how Carol could deny her. If Carol not only got pregnant by cheating on Susan, but then insists on telling Ross, I would expect Susan to walk. I certainly would under those circumstances.
If Carol got pregnant by cheating on Susan, I would expect at least some residual anger even if she has forgiven Carol.
It still comes back to that both Carol and Susan are remarkably enthusiastic and remarkably unambivalent about raising a child who who is going to change their lives in major ways for a long time to come if it was an unexpected accident.
There attitude makes a lot more sense to me if they both desired the baby before it was conceived. The issue is never the baby. Susan's issue is who the father is.
Let us see what we agree about and what we don't agree about.
But does that mean it was planned? No.
Do you agree that Carol almost undoubtedly got pregnant after she had left Ross and very shortly before the pilot?
If you don't agree, how long before the pilot do you think Carol got pregnant? How long before the pilot do you think that Carol left Ross? Remember that the coffeehouse was still a bar when that happened.
If you do agree, then Carol clearly cheated on Susan unless it was intentional and with Susan's consent. Some people are happy to believe Carol cheated, but I don't. She's at the beginning of a very important relation for her, and you don't start something like that off by cheating especially when you're not sexually attracted to men.
If Carol got pregnant by cheating on Susan, Susan would have a lot of leverage to say to Carol, "DON'T TELL ROSS THAT HE IS THE FATHER, at least not now."
That would get Susan most of what she wants, and I don't see how Carol could deny her. If Carol not only got pregnant by cheating on Susan, but then insists on telling Ross, I would expect Susan to walk. I certainly would under those circumstances.
I understand the point, but I don't get any trace of anger toward Carol from Susan.
I mean I have had people who should've been equally mad at me for something but put on their angry on someone else because it was more convenient.
If Carol got pregnant by cheating on Susan, I would expect at least some residual anger even if she has forgiven Carol.
It still comes back to that both Carol and Susan are remarkably enthusiastic and remarkably unambivalent about raising a child who who is going to change their lives in major ways for a long time to come if it was an unexpected accident.
There attitude makes a lot more sense to me if they both desired the baby before it was conceived. The issue is never the baby. Susan's issue is who the father is.
Re: Susan
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I completely agree that Carol got pregnant maybe a month before the pilot. Meaning yes she cheated on Susan.
Maybe Susan completely forgave the accident. Like she realized that there were feelings there and that she herself had helped Carol cheat on Ross for a very long time. Maybe she just got over it. Or maybe they were in a break when Carol spelt with Ross (hahah that is partly a joke but could be true).
Maybe Susan didn't like Ross because he was constantly undermining her connection with the baby. Susan wanted to be viewed as a parent of the child and Ross was making her out to be more of a step parent. Makes sense to me.
Also they could've been thinking about having children. Going to a sperm bank and everything. But then Carol is pregnant! What an amazing accident.
Maybe Susan completely forgave the accident. Like she realized that there were feelings there and that she herself had helped Carol cheat on Ross for a very long time. Maybe she just got over it. Or maybe they were in a break when Carol spelt with Ross (hahah that is partly a joke but could be true).
Maybe Susan didn't like Ross because he was constantly undermining her connection with the baby. Susan wanted to be viewed as a parent of the child and Ross was making her out to be more of a step parent. Makes sense to me.
Also they could've been thinking about having children. Going to a sperm bank and everything. But then Carol is pregnant! What an amazing accident.
Re: Susan
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sierra17 wrote:
If Carol cheated and got pregnant, she can still largely fix the situation. Don't tell Ross, and somehow I think that Susan would've insisted on that. I doubt that Carol could both cheat on Susan and not do what she could to fix it without seriously disrupting her relationship with Susan.
That, of course, could happen by accident, but it's much more likely to occur if you are tracking your temperature and where you are in your period.
A bunch of things are "possible," but given how enthusiastic the two women are about their having a child which is going to disrupt their lives in a major ways and that Susan does not show any trace of anger toward Carol even when she is angry at Ross, I believe the best explanation is that it was deliberate.
I believe we both find it easy to understand why Carol would want Ross the father and why Susan wouldn't.
By the way, I don't think we can prove any of this, one way or the other, but I have a strong feeling that Carol getting pregnant intentionally fits for we are shown better than anything else that I know.
My guess is that Susan moved the last of her stuff out of Ross's apartment as soon as she knew she was pregnant.
I completely agree that Carol got pregnant maybe a month before the pilot.
There we disagree. You seem to be happy to have Carol cheat on Susan close to the beginning of their relationship. I am not. I don't think Carol would do that. Not that it is impossible, but there is a better explanation.
Meaning yes she cheated on Susan.
Except that the issue is still alive and right there in the form of Ross and is going to be right there in the form of Ross for a long time to come. Sure, Susan could forgive Carol's infidelity she wants the baby too if it did not have any other long-lasting consequences, but she is living with one consequence of that infidelity, i.e. Ross. If the pregnancy was the result of infidelity, Susan is always going to be reminded that Carol got her into this situation I mean having Ross in their family and I don't think she would forgive that so easily. She is going to be constantly reminded of it.
Maybe Susan completely forgave the accident.
If Carol cheated and got pregnant, she can still largely fix the situation. Don't tell Ross, and somehow I think that Susan would've insisted on that. I doubt that Carol could both cheat on Susan and not do what she could to fix it without seriously disrupting her relationship with Susan.
That is funny, but not very likely.
Or maybe they were in a break when Carol spelt with Ross
Oh, I absolutely think that they were and quite possibly had been exploring that possibility, and how the other person felt about it, all along.
Also they could've been thinking about having children.
I think there is a very good argument for why Carol would prefer Ross and Susan would prefer Bobo.
Going to a sperm bank and everything.
I am not sure if you're being sarcastic, but it is certainly much less amazing if it isn't an accident. You have to have Carol who is sexually attracted to women, not men decide to cheat on Susan when she is at her most fertile.
But then Carol is pregnant! What an amazing accident.
That, of course, could happen by accident, but it's much more likely to occur if you are tracking your temperature and where you are in your period.
A bunch of things are "possible," but given how enthusiastic the two women are about their having a child which is going to disrupt their lives in a major ways and that Susan does not show any trace of anger toward Carol even when she is angry at Ross, I believe the best explanation is that it was deliberate.
I believe we both find it easy to understand why Carol would want Ross the father and why Susan wouldn't.
By the way, I don't think we can prove any of this, one way or the other, but I have a strong feeling that Carol getting pregnant intentionally fits for we are shown better than anything else that I know.
Re: Susan
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sierra17
One thing that may cause us to evaluate the situation differently is that you may really hate the idea that Carol got pregnant by Ross without his agreement. I know a lot of people feel that way, and in general I would. Rather emphatically would.
But here, I like the story that it was intentional rather than accidental. That Carol wants to keep Ross in her life to some degree and not just kick him to the curb.
That she wants the father of her child to be the man that she loved and married and lived with for seven years, not some stranger.
If the pregnancy was accidental, that is all out the window, and it is just another unintentional pregnancy with people making the best of something that they didn't desire.
P. S. A friend who is a lesbian and who, like Carol, discovered that she is a lesbian after living for many years as a heterosexual woman once told me that she did not know any lesbians who would choose to be a lesbian if they had a choice.
I see Carol as trying to salvage what she can from her previous life and not just discard all of it.
One thing that may cause us to evaluate the situation differently is that you may really hate the idea that Carol got pregnant by Ross without his agreement. I know a lot of people feel that way, and in general I would. Rather emphatically would.
But here, I like the story that it was intentional rather than accidental. That Carol wants to keep Ross in her life to some degree and not just kick him to the curb.
That she wants the father of her child to be the man that she loved and married and lived with for seven years, not some stranger.
If the pregnancy was accidental, that is all out the window, and it is just another unintentional pregnancy with people making the best of something that they didn't desire.
P. S. A friend who is a lesbian and who, like Carol, discovered that she is a lesbian after living for many years as a heterosexual woman once told me that she did not know any lesbians who would choose to be a lesbian if they had a choice.
I see Carol as trying to salvage what she can from her previous life and not just discard all of it.
Re: Susan
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I agree with you that is a interesting idea and story. It really makes me wish we got more of Susan and Carol. They were excellent characters. I honestly think your idea is more interesting and better than what I believe. But I just don't completely buy it. Especially with Susan.
Of course either of us will ever be able to will ever be able to prove our side is for 100%.
Where I agree with you that it doesn't make sense that Carol would sleep with Ross on accident when she is a lesbian. But I view it was an act of a passion and love and not luster for Carol.
Of course either of us will ever be able to will ever be able to prove our side is for 100%.
Where I agree with you that it doesn't make sense that Carol would sleep with Ross on accident when she is a lesbian. But I view it was an act of a passion and love and not luster for Carol.
Re: Susan
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sierra17 wrote:
I didn't think that was the controversial part of what I am suggesting.
By the way, I have enjoyed this. This is what the board should be like, but all too frequently isn't.
Okay. What part about Susan don't you completely buy?
Especially with Susan.
I didn't think that was the controversial part of what I am suggesting.
By the way, I have enjoyed this. This is what the board should be like, but all too frequently isn't.
Re: Susan
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What I might might by Susan is that your theory just doesn't really work with her.
I totally see what you mean by Carol. That she would in fact want Ross to be the father of her baby. She would want her child to know their father, she would want to know what kept of person he was, and it was a way to keep someone she lived in her life.
But Susan it makes no sense. She wouldn't want to be viewed as a step parent and she doesn't like Ross a single bit. If I was Susan no way would I agree to it. Not even one shot at it. I would suggest having a more open sperm
donor. Getting to know him more and even offering visits with the child. But no way would I agree for that man to be my wife's ex husband.
I have also really enjoyed this! It definitely the best discussion I have had here. Thanks for putting up with my bad spelling, auto correct and lack of checking my writing.
I totally see what you mean by Carol. That she would in fact want Ross to be the father of her baby. She would want her child to know their father, she would want to know what kept of person he was, and it was a way to keep someone she lived in her life.
But Susan it makes no sense. She wouldn't want to be viewed as a step parent and she doesn't like Ross a single bit. If I was Susan no way would I agree to it. Not even one shot at it. I would suggest having a more open sperm
donor. Getting to know him more and even offering visits with the child. But no way would I agree for that man to be my wife's ex husband.
I have also really enjoyed this! It definitely the best discussion I have had here. Thanks for putting up with my bad spelling, auto correct and lack of checking my writing.
Re: Susan
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sierra17 wrote:
Carol really wants Ross as the father. Susan really doesn't. There is no way to reconcile that. There is no way to split down the middle, so what happens? Do you just stay at loggerheads until Ross has a new girlfriend and the opportunity disappears? Susan could've done that. She could've just stonewalled Carol, but she loves Carol and doesn't want to hurt her. I think Susan understands how strongly Carol feels about having Ross as the father.
My suggestion is that they came to a compromise that respected both of their points of view. It was sort of leaving the matter in the hands of fate. Carol would get one shot at getting pregnant by Ross, and if she succeeded, Susan would accept the situation, sort of. But she still doesn't want Ross there, and tries to drive him away. Note that Carol does not try to restrain Susan in regard to Ross. She treats them both equally when they are squabbling.
She seems to recognize that Susan has as much right to her position as Ross does to his.
As you pointed out, Ross aggravates the situation by being hostile to Susan and by immediately claiming ownership of the baby.
If she didn't get pregnant, Carol would just have to give up the idea of having Ross as the father. Neither are perfect, but what you going to do? Susan, of course, does not expect Carol to get pregnant with just one shot, and they are probably both very tired of arguing about it.
So they both give in a little, and I don't have a problem seeing Susan do that. They want to stay together and sometimes you have to give up something to stay together. And to show that you respect the other person's point of view.
There was another sort of compromise possible. Have Ross be the father, but don't tell him. That way he is not in their family unit which is, I think, the real issue. I'm sure Carol would've been very unhappy about that because I think she wants her child to know his father.
If Carol cheated on Susan and got pregnant, Susan would be well within her rights to insist that Ross not be told, and that would solve most of her problem. If Carol, under the circumstances, insisted on telling Ross, I can easily see Susan walking. As I said earlier, that's what I would do.
At that point, your partner has betrayed you twice and it's time to get out.
So, you cannot see Susan agreeing to even giving Carol a chance to get pregnant by Ross, and I cannot see Susan sticking around if Carol cheated on her to get pregnant and then insisted on telling Ross. We just have different points of view.
The fact that Carol does tell Ross, and Susan does not seem to be angry at Carol over that suggests very strongly to me that Susan agreed to Carol trying to get pregnant. She doesn't blame Carol for putting her in a situation that she hates. She just doesn't want Ross there which could've been accomplished by not telling him.
Talking to you has been a complete pleasure.
I agree about that, but what do you do when the person that you love really wants one thing, and you really want something else?
But no way would I agree for that man to be my wife's ex husband.
Carol really wants Ross as the father. Susan really doesn't. There is no way to reconcile that. There is no way to split down the middle, so what happens? Do you just stay at loggerheads until Ross has a new girlfriend and the opportunity disappears? Susan could've done that. She could've just stonewalled Carol, but she loves Carol and doesn't want to hurt her. I think Susan understands how strongly Carol feels about having Ross as the father.
My suggestion is that they came to a compromise that respected both of their points of view. It was sort of leaving the matter in the hands of fate. Carol would get one shot at getting pregnant by Ross, and if she succeeded, Susan would accept the situation, sort of. But she still doesn't want Ross there, and tries to drive him away. Note that Carol does not try to restrain Susan in regard to Ross. She treats them both equally when they are squabbling.
She seems to recognize that Susan has as much right to her position as Ross does to his.
As you pointed out, Ross aggravates the situation by being hostile to Susan and by immediately claiming ownership of the baby.
If she didn't get pregnant, Carol would just have to give up the idea of having Ross as the father. Neither are perfect, but what you going to do? Susan, of course, does not expect Carol to get pregnant with just one shot, and they are probably both very tired of arguing about it.
So they both give in a little, and I don't have a problem seeing Susan do that. They want to stay together and sometimes you have to give up something to stay together. And to show that you respect the other person's point of view.
There was another sort of compromise possible. Have Ross be the father, but don't tell him. That way he is not in their family unit which is, I think, the real issue. I'm sure Carol would've been very unhappy about that because I think she wants her child to know his father.
If Carol cheated on Susan and got pregnant, Susan would be well within her rights to insist that Ross not be told, and that would solve most of her problem. If Carol, under the circumstances, insisted on telling Ross, I can easily see Susan walking. As I said earlier, that's what I would do.
At that point, your partner has betrayed you twice and it's time to get out.
So, you cannot see Susan agreeing to even giving Carol a chance to get pregnant by Ross, and I cannot see Susan sticking around if Carol cheated on her to get pregnant and then insisted on telling Ross. We just have different points of view.
The fact that Carol does tell Ross, and Susan does not seem to be angry at Carol over that suggests very strongly to me that Susan agreed to Carol trying to get pregnant. She doesn't blame Carol for putting her in a situation that she hates. She just doesn't want Ross there which could've been accomplished by not telling him.
No problem. I have my wife for that.
Thanks for putting up with my bad spelling, auto correct and lack of checking my writing.
Talking to you has been a complete pleasure.
Re: Susan
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Ross is the baby's father, so he has a right to be involved in it's life whether Susan likes it or not. She would just have to lump it. Ross is the one being cheated on, since his wife is having an affair with another woman.
Re: Susan
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louiseculmer wrote:
Well, yes, but if Carol doesn't tell him that she is pregnant, or doesn't tell him that he is the father, it would solve Susan's problem.
Ross is the baby's father, so he has a right to be involved in it's life whether Susan likes it or not.
Re: Susan
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So you just really can't imagine someone living life differently than you would?
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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.
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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.
Susan
I can't imagine being Susan, getting together with someone and moving in with them right away, finding out they're pregnant by their ex, and agree to raise the child together - all in the span of a few months? Does this seem weird to anyone else? I guess when you know you're with the one, you just know. It just seems extremely rushed.